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 Post subject: Re: AoE Heal Changes Inc
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:04 pm  
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Overlordus Ultimatus
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TheDeamon wrote:
Now that is somewhat sexxy, PoH going raidwide would certainly have an impact on a Priests casting preferences, as its range is comparatively massive to CoH. Of course, they would then have to come up with a means to make sure Priests don't get trapped in a situation of chain casting nothing but PoH and CoH when it's up.


Just put AOE caps on aoe heals.

Caster DPS currently suffers through it - each AOE spell has a set amount of damage it's allowed to do. If the spell goes over that amount of damage, damage to all targets is reduced until the total damage done falls back under the cap. So for example, if my arcane explosion hits for 1k, and I'm hitting 20 mobs, I'm doing 20k damage per cast. If the AOE cap for arcane explosion is reduced to 10k/cast then my 1k per target on 20 targets is exceeding the cap, and damage to each target is reduced to meet the cap - 10k damage / 20 targets = 500 damage per target.

So even though I hit AE for 1k, when I pound it out against 20 mobs, it would hit for 500 on each.

Implement something similar on AOE heals.



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 Post subject: Re: AoE Heal Changes Inc
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:42 pm  
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Wrath of Air
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 12:28 am
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I think the group sizes might make that less easy than you’re thinking Cog. Changing between a 5/10/25/(40) environment is going to change the power of the spell if its capped at some arbitrary number. (I.E. capped at 10 means it will be very powerful for 5 and 10 mans, but will drop off fast in 25 mans an lolAV) Sure it sort of works as a bandaid fix – especially since sub-25 isn’t generally considered the “important” tier – but it would still leave CoH priests spamming away in 10-man Nax which they seem to want to avoid.


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 Post subject: Re: AoE Heal Changes Inc
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:50 pm  
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textextext
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It's moot anyway as it stands. CoH isn't a "true AoE" in that it only affects 5(6 with the glyph) targets. PoH likewise isn't a "true AoE" as it only affects people in the party(plus their pets). I imagine if PoH became raidwide, it would be target capped also.


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 Post subject: Re: AoE Heal Changes Inc
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:13 pm  
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Plunder Bunny
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2007 9:25 pm
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armabond wrote:
They are taking the most fun and difficult spell to use correctly and putting a timer on it.

The problem is that spamming CoH and WG (being a bad healer) can put you at the top of the meters and make you look like a good healer.

Any heal might be difficult and challenging to use "correctly", which is what a good healer would do... but right now it is too easy to just mash it and LOOK like a good healer, especially considering that the targets are chosen for you. And why would anyone bother doing things properly, if it is easier to mash WG all day and get the same or better results?

I'd rather they put a cooldown on it to force people to actually prioritise their abilities, not just have a mashfest with no thinking involved.

Taking away the ability to spam might do something to separate the bad healers from the good healers again.

Plus, the whole reason they nerfed Lifebloom so hard is because we were basically turning into one-spell wonders because Lifebloom was just that good. If WG turned out to be just that good as well, in a way that it was silly to use anything but 90% WG... then it would be a bit ridiculous. Take away the spell we are forced to use 90% of the time due to how good it is and give us.... another spell we are forced to use 90% of the time due to how good it is.

If it really is doing that much of the work at 80, something had to be done. No nerfs to the numbers, that would make it useless again. No more mana cost increases, please. I think a short cooldown (one that will work quite well inside our standard rotation of other HoTs) was the best way to go. I'm actually very happy with it.



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 Post subject: Re: AoE Heal Changes Inc
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:48 pm  
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Plunder Bunny
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Good or bad healing isn't a measure of what spells you use, its a measure of whether or not what your assigned to heal DIES or not. How it happens is irrevlevant. I love spamming, and still hate the change. :(


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 Post subject: Re: AoE Heal Changes Inc
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:52 pm  
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Ra·poot·o
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Caoimhe wrote:
armabond wrote:
They are taking the most fun and difficult spell to use correctly and putting a timer on it.

The problem is that spamming CoH and WG (being a bad healer) can put you at the top of the meters and make you look like a good healer.

The same was true of CH shammies back in the day - and then suddenly you'd hit a fight where CH wasn't usable 95% of the time (Archimondelol) and the results were drastically shifted. And even then, selecting from multiple ranks was important, whereas here it's a single-button meshfest.

I've been playing my dr00d as resto since 3.0, and it's been unbelievable. My first thoughts were "holy crap, this is what CoH priests must be like, this is insane". Just the mere fact that it was an insta-cast helped the versatility by insane amounts. I have to agree with Emma here - a cooldown would self-impose a spell rotation, simultaneously fixing the issue (without unnecessarily nerfing it) while adding variety. One would argue that a good player could do that anyway, but I circle back to the quote which is: if you could do better by mashing a single button forever, why would you change except out of boredom?

Besides, the novelty days of 3.0 where people would say "what the hell IS that sound?" when I spammed WG needlessly on them have passed, sadly!



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 Post subject: Re: AoE Heal Changes Inc
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 11:18 am  
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In place of a dark lord you would have a queen
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Raputo wrote:
I've been playing my dr00d as resto since 3.0, and it's been unbelievable. My first thoughts were "holy crap, this is what CoH priests must be like, this is insane". Just the mere fact that it was an insta-cast helped the versatility by insane amounts. I have to agree with Emma here - a cooldown would self-impose a spell rotation, simultaneously fixing the issue (without unnecessarily nerfing it) while adding variety. One would argue that a good player could do that anyway, but I circle back to the quote which is: if you could do better by mashing a single button forever, why would you change except out of boredom?


Also remember, given that 5-6 of the 7 healers in our raids are going to have significant AoE functionality, there's going to be a need for some of them -- even if they are theoretically capable of buttonmashing one spell -- to do something otherwise. I don't really want to segregate healer raid spots between AoE healers and single target healers, so pretty much everyone with CH/WG/CoH needs to be ready, willing, and able to swing both ways regardless what changes Blizzard makes.



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 Post subject: Re: AoE Heal Changes Inc
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:56 pm  
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Well, I think Blizz's goal has been to have all 4 healing classes be capable of filling any of those roles: AoE healing, raid healing (not always the same as AoE healing!) and tank healing. So, what you posit should certainly be possible and I agree that the days of "oh, shaman? you're on raid healing, period" don't necessarily need to continue. Now what I haven't been able to decide yet is if the 4 classes will end up being "roughly" equivalent in those capabilities, but simply have different mechanics in fulfilling those roles, or if we'll have the "technically you can do anything, buuuuut class X is still slightly better at this one particular role" scenario.



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 Post subject: Re: AoE Heal Changes Inc
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 8:54 pm  
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In place of a dark lord you would have a queen
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Raputo wrote:
Well, I think Blizz's goal has been to have all 4 healing classes be capable of filling any of those roles: AoE healing, raid healing (not always the same as AoE healing!) and tank healing. So, what you posit should certainly be possible and I agree that the days of "oh, shaman? you're on raid healing, period" don't necessarily need to continue. Now what I haven't been able to decide yet is if the 4 classes will end up being "roughly" equivalent in those capabilities, but simply have different mechanics in fulfilling those roles, or if we'll have the "technically you can do anything, buuuuut class X is still slightly better at this one particular role" scenario.

Definitely agree. What I'm responding to is the fact that Bliz in fact has now made all of them equally good at each role (except loldiscpriests.singletargetbitchez), yet creates a predicament if there's only one of those roles that anyone wants to do (AoE heal). I hope that whatever changes they make balance raid dynamics at the 25man level, where some amount of specialization and division of labor is good, while they tune 5mans and 10mans to have bigger versatility among classes within each role (which I agree is important).



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